Episode Description:

Stephanie McKenzie has been swimming since she was a child. She came to Swim Sista Swim as an instructor and, as you’ll hear in her voice, is a vibrant and confident woman on all counts. Yet she still feels a twinge of doubt every time she walks into a public pool alone, still notices that more often than not, she’s the only one there who looks like her. 

That’s what Swim Sista Swim is trying to change.

In this episode, Arielle talks with founder Carol Burrell, instructor Stephanie, and participant Janet Rose about why swimming has historically felt out of reach for Black women, and how together, they are changing that narrative for themselves and future generations. 

Carol just launched a second programme called Mandem Swim, which gives Black men access to the same safe learning space and sense of community so that they, too, can take advantage of their city’s waterways.

Connect with Carol Burrell and Swim Sista Swim:

• Email: carol.burrell@canalrivertrust.org.uk
• LinkedIn: Carol Burrell
• Canal & River Trust: canalrivertrust.org.uk

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Theme and all original music by Marvin Lanes

Transcript:

Stephanie: 

Even now, I always get that but I walk into the pool, and then I think, “They’re in the water, Steph.” But it’s there, you know? Definitely is there.

Arielle (VO): 

That’s Stephanie McKenzie. She learned to swim at seven or eight years old, thrown into the pool by her older brothers on Sunday mornings in Nottingham in the UK, and has been swimming ever since.

Stephanie: 

I’d usually go swimming in the morning, and then go to work. I did a lot of TaeKwonDo, so then I’d go swimming after TaeKwonDo. And like now, I’m working for the NHS, on me feet all day. I always go swimming if I do two or three days in a row. Water has never really frightened her, but still she gets that feeling.

Arielle (VO): 

I’m Arielle, and this is an Optimist Daily’s weekly roundup guest interview episode. That clip of Stephanie you just heard is what struck me most when I was putting this together. That someone who has swum confidently for decades, who came into a swimming program specifically for Black women as an instructor and not a student, still feels that twinge of doubt when she walks into a public pool alone.

That she still notices that more often than not, she’s the only one there who looks like her.

This is exactly why founder Carol Burrell built Swim Sista Swim, an initiative that you might remember we featured as a local change maker last year.

Today, we learn about this program from three distinct perspectives.

Stephanie shares with us her own history with swimming, what the Swim Sista Swim experience is like from the inside as an instructor, and what she’s gained from it, even though she’s already an avid swimmer herself.

Arielle: 

Stephanie, what was your relationship with water, and where do you think that came from?

Stephanie: 

My parents were Jamaicans. I’ve got three Sistas in Jamaica. But the family of seven here in Britain. So my mother had six children kind of a year apart. She would get the boys to take us out so she could clean and wash the house and cook the food. So we were kind of, I don’t know, seven, eight-ish, and they would take us swimming.

None of us girls could swim. The boys had already learned. And when we’d go swimming, they’d just throw us in the pool, and then eventually we just learned to swim. From about seven, eight-ish, we were swimming. Well, I don’t even know swimming, being thrown in the pool. But it was fun to us then because, you know, the boy, our boys were like, “We’ll get you. Don’t worry. We’ll get you.”

It wasn’t as though I ever had a fear of water. Does that make sense? I just grew up loving water.

Arielle: 

Yeah, that does make sense.

Stephanie: 

Carol had wanted Black women to teach Black women. She knew that I did a lot of swimming, however- I wasn’t a qualified assistant or teacher. So what she did was push me through the assistant, which then enabled me to be a part of the program.

Some of the women’s faces were like, “And you really want me to go in the water? You really want me…” You know, you could see that there was that fear. Don’t talk about the word swim, just talk about getting in the water, the water on the skin and the hair. You could see that going through their heads of, “You know, what am I gonna do with my hair?

Will I have to wash my hair? Will I have to plait it? It’s gonna take all this time.” So there was a lot of that anxiety you could just see in the women’s faces.

Arielle: 

And then as things went on, when was the shift for most women, do you think? Because it’s a 10-week program.

Stephanie: 

10-week course. Yeah, yeah. I would at least say halfway through.

The program that Carol’s put together is quite unique. When I look at now swimming lessons or even other swim schools-

Arielle (VO): 

In other swimming lessons, the whole class focuses on learning one or maybe a couple things together. So everyone is doing the same thing at the same time, whether they’re ready for it or not.

Swim Sista Swim is not like that. They allow each woman to go at their own pace. …

Stephanie: 

…everybody’s doing it right. This is what we do for learning floating… Whereas, for example, now we can, we enable the women to go at their own pace.

So we could have a couple of the women don’t get in the water. They’re sat on the edge of the pool with just their feet dangling in the water. Whereas then you’ve got, uh, other women walking down the steps in the water to walk around. They might just put their chin on the water. Whereas two or three others are sat on the side with just their feet in. So it was taking them at their own pace.

But yet, once they were fully in the water, the others would help the ones that were more fearful. And it’s amazing how friends can help friends. So as much as we’re saying, “Put your face in the water. You can do it. Here’s a… Try this,” they’d try it with us, but then people would break off into little friendship groups.

We’d look back again and they’d gone a little further themselves because of that support from their friends.

Arielle: 

You grew up swimming.

Stephanie: 

Mm.

Arielle: 

And so many of your peers, so many other Black women, and even men, don’t tend to have that, uh, lifelong experience.

Stephanie: 

Mm-mm.

Arielle: 

So even though you’re already really familiar with swimming, was there anything about the program and your participation in it that taught you something new?

Stephanie: 

Well, for one, I mean, a lot of the women have the fear that my parents had. So my parents, although in Jamaica we know the sea, sun, whatever, they- Weren’t confident around water at all. So then when I came across these group of women that had that same kind of emotional sort of fear around water, it made me think, boy, this is what they, they experience, you know?

And the, the moving the, moving my parents forward was a battle, and I often thought we’re never gonna get there with these people. We’re never gonna do it. Like I said, there were six of us, and when we all grew and moved and Mum didn’t have that big responsibility of getting kids ready and all, I took her swimming.

And the difference taking her to a public bath and then now working with this group of women that are in a pool purely for them is immense. So her fear wasn’t just about the water, my mother, it was about who’s watching. Is she in people’s way? Why is she here? Why are they watching her? Before she could even think about learning to swim.

Whereas we as a group of Black women, we had a space that was just for us, so all they needed to do was think about trying to swim.

Arielle: 

Do you remember a specific, maybe a, a specific participant who did something extra brave that inspired more people to join?

Stephanie: 

There was a particular participant that, I would say she was miserable. Miserable. You know, like a lot of them were fearful, but excited and had a smile on face. I had to ask this woman is, is somebody holding a gun to you to get you here? She just looked so miserable. Oh. And I would ask her, “You know, if you’re not ready, please don’t come,” ’cause it, you know, it’s just that blockage.

“No, no, I want to come, I want to come, I want to come.” But she could not… The, the fear was that much that she just had this miserable, intense look about her. She was doing the things, but she was just, just a real miserable face, and I think about week eight, she kind of was able to lift her feet off the water and put her chin and her nose in the water, and from then on we got a little bit of a smile, and then a little bit more of a smile, you know?

And then things just clicked into shape. She managed it. And, you know, it’s ju- it was just like we were all clapping and just waving and- … it was just a, it was just magical. Magical.

Arielle: 

You seem very confident, but was that always the case?

Stephanie: 

I mean, sometimes if I go to the pool where I am, I still get that that I walk into the pool- Y- and I’m by myself, and then I think, “They’re in the water still.”

But it’s there, you know? It is there. Definitely is there. And if I feel that, and I’m quite confident, and I’ve been swimming a long time- … you know, what are some of these others feeling? ‘Cause that’s the other thing. As the program ends, we want them to continue. Carol’s view is that we want them to be confident around any water.

So what, um, she did with her colleagues is put on some rowing and paddle boating sessions that the women came to, and some of the women that had learnt to swim were just fearful of getting in the boat. They were saying things like, “Yeah, but if the boat tips up, what am I gonna do?” And we’d say, “Well, you’ve just learnt to swim, so swim,” you know?

And they were like, “Oh, no. We can’t get out of it now.” Anyway, we’d, we’d done a couple of sessions, and they loved it, just, you know, rowing down the canal and hearing all these lovely things about the, the nature and the birds and everything. And then Carol says, “There’s some race going on, some dragon boat race.

Is anybody interested?” So some of them, including myself, we all went on this dragon boat race.

Arielle: 

Oh, my goodness.

Stephanie: 

And we came second! And none of us had done it before! Just amazing. So from that, you know, “I’m gonna learn to swim,” they’ve done rowing, they’ve done dragon boat racing, and they’ve done paddle, paddle boating.

So it’s just… You know, it just opens up so many more doors, doesn’t it? The women that we’ve taught to swim will be able to talk to their grandchildren and their children’s children about how wonderful it is.

Arielle (VO): 

Stephanie had a front row seat to all the changes and progress the participants of Swim Sista Swim were going through. Let’s hear what it’s like being one of those women.

Janet: 

Yes, my name’s Janet Rose, and one of my jobs is I teach belly dance.

Arielle (VO): 

Janet Rose was in the first cohort of Swim Sista Swim, among the very first women Carol brought through.

She tells us all about the barriers that kept her from swimming, and no, it wasn’t just fear that held her back, and how Swim Sista Swim has not only helped her overcome them, but has offered even more than she and the rest of the community expected.

Janet: 

So my relationship with water, um, it’s an interesting one, because I did do swimming at school.

Well, didn’t go to all of the lessons, but went to some of them, so I could, I could swim a bit. I’m, I’m one of six children, so my dad used to take us all swimming, and I remember my brother was swimming. He wasn’t a strong swimmer, and he was in the deep end, and he started to, to, to go under I went over to, to help, not that I’m the best swimmer anyway, and, uh, then he started to pull me down.

So it, it was a very panicky situation. Um, luckily for us, our dad did see us and, and got us both out. So that kind of put me off water a bit. Yeah, that stayed in my mind, so that panic and that, ugh, yeah, I’m thinking back to it now. And I’m… This is gonna sound funny though, but you know what? When the film Jaws came out, this is mad, I tell you, but I think it traumatized a whole nation because it was so scary at the time.

If I went on holiday even, I wouldn’t go in the sea above my knee. And if I can’t see to the bottom, I’m not going in there at all.

I run an organization called When Women Gather. We do lots of, um, meetups with women doing dance, drama, or talks and events and live music. I connected with Carol anyway ’cause we’d advertise some of her services, and obviously she gave me a poster about Swim Sista Swim.

And I saw it and, and I must admit, I immediately thought, “I need to go on that. I want to go on that.” Um, so I was on the first cohort for Swim Sista Swim. The fact that it was, um, a Black women’s group as well was really a big attraction for me ’cause I felt like I would be more supported. Having the group being all, all Black women, there’s a commonality through it.

You know, we did talk about some of the myths about things like the density of our bones and how…

Arielle (VO): 

From being told that Black people can’t swim because they’ve got heavier bones, to the particularities of looking after their hair and how difficult it is just to find a swimming cap…

Janet: 

Swimming caps were not good for our head. My head is, is massive. Literally, um, trying to find a swimming cap that fit and actually sealed around so your hair didn’t get wet. That didn’t happen at all. What I loved about the program was that I could talk with other Black women about that, and they understood that straight away.

After we did the session, the actual physical swimming, we would really talk and talk about how we felt about how…

Arielle (VO): 

After each swimming session, the women got together and talked about how they were doing, what their biggest obstacles were, and would open up and be vulnerable with each other about their disappointments or fears.

Janet: 

…And they would get upset. We could support them, we could support each other. We could also celebrate the, the wins. So for the first day of actually getting into the pool, a lot of us were very nervous. We were all nervous together, so it was good that we were all together. Yeah, feeling a little bit vulnerable as well, actually.

I mean, I’m 60. I’m how old? I’m 62, 63. And some of the ladies as well were… There’s some a little bit older, and then I have a, a benign tumor in my inner ear, so my balance is not great. So one of my concerns was getting in the pool. So going down the side on that ladder, getting down there, you know what I mean?

And holding onto it really tightly was, was a little bit, um, daunting as well. And then actually getting into the water, that first sensation of like, “Ooh, gosh, the water’s on me,” sort of thing. Definitely staying down the shallow end. There was no wandering up to the other part of it. The good thing about it was that the instructors were brilliant and incredibly caring, understanding, and patient, and just took the time with us. Absolutely took the time with us.

Arielle (VO): 

Janet has come a long way since that first day of the program, and she sees herself a little differently these days.

Janet: 

I am now a mermaid. That’s what I feel like.

Arielle (VO): 

She is a mermaid, someone who belongs in the water, who was determined to get there, and who kept coming back with the support of her community even when things got challenging in her personal life.

Janet shared with me that one of her favorite aspects of her experience actually happened during the four weeks after the swimming part of the program, while she was out on the Nottingham canals. She had never canoed in her life, and she certainly didn’t expect to love it. But out on the water, she was able to appreciate her city from a new and unfamiliar angle.

Floating out on the canals, she saw birds and greenery on both sides. She called it a little oasis of calm and beauty. Janet often goes to the pool now. She’s taking her great nephews and her grandchildren. The women like Janet who came through Swim Sista Swim aren’t the end of the story. They’re changing the narrative and passing it on.

Carol: 

My name’s Carol Burrell, and I’m an engagement coordinator at the Canal and River Trust. And I’m based in the East Midland region, and I cover mainly Nottingham and Nottinghamshire.

Arielle (VO): 

Finally, we get to hear from the founder of Swim Sista Swim. She shares with us the moments that inspired her to start this initiative in the first place, how she’s run such a successful program, and her personal feelings about water and swimming.

Carol: 

Prior to working with the Canal and River Trust, I wouldn’t get down to the water. Water’s just not my thing. I had this fear of water. And it wasn’t till I was working alongside my colleagues and I understood the things around water, the safety things we put in place, the depths of the canals, ’cause I thought it was a, a, a, a deep, deep, deep canal, and they’re not really.

So until I understood all those things, I was in exactly the same place as, uh, the women that I was working with on Swim Sista Swim.

Arielle: 

How deep are the canals, actually?

Carol: 

They’re about four. Four, no, four, five, four. Because they were built for boats to travel along-

Arielle: 

Right.

Carol: 

… And that’s all they needed When I started to work for the trust on this program that supports people with their mental and physical wellbeing, it was a free service, and I was quite overwhelmed by not seeing Black people down by the water.

At the trust, we weren’t seeing Black women in particular coming down and accessing these activities that we were putting on. And then when I started to talk to them, “Why, why aren’t you accessing these services that are gonna benefit you?” Overwhelmingly, it was fear of water, and they couldn’t swim.

And I 100% could relate to that. And then putting that together with the research from the World Health Organization, where Black people are most likely to die through drowning… it was something that we felt we really needed to address for Nottingham. From I was a little girl, that’s what we was told, that our bones are heavier and we don’t float, and it’s still being said now to school children now and people now.

There is a story around, you know, the transatlantic slaves, when Black people were thrown into the sea, our bones are heavier and we don’t float, when in fact we do float, and everyone floats in different ways, and there’s been huge research been done by the Black Swim Association and the RNLI to prove that.

So after talking to my community, the community that I belong to, and hearing that, you know, it was things around the fear of water and hair care and everything else, there was a point where I thought, “No, we’re not accessing the water. We’re not gaining these benefits that are free to everybody. Something’s got to change.” So it was in 2024 when Swim Sista launched.

Arielle: 

I feel like most programs that have to do with learning a physical skill wouldn’t think to add a psychotherapist. What told you that that would be a necessary component?

Carol: 

I was looking at my story … and what prevented me from doing it.

If I have somebody to help me break down these barriers, surely it’s gonna make it easy for me to try and learn this skill that I’m trying to learn, which is a life skill. It’s not just a nice thing to do. It is a life skill. And I’m not trained to do that, so I, I felt it was really important to bring somebody in that’s trained to work at these levels.

Arielle: 

Talk to me about the haircare piece, because listeners might not immediately understand why that’s a barrier.

Carol: 

What happened, especially years ago, the chemicals that were put into the swimming pools were very harsh on our hair. They’re not great on everyone’s hair, but it was really harsh on our hair. And then in a lot of cases, it would break our hair off.

I know of people where they’ve actually gone almost bald because of the effects that it has. When I was at school, we didn’t have the… Our hair takes a lot longer to dry and take care of. So we weren’t allowed the time after swimming to dry your hair properly. We weren’t allowed that. Because I’d, I’d be in the pool with my white counterparts, my white friends.

And they could jump in, hair get wet, get out, blow hair dry, and it’s dry. We need a lot much longer time. But because the teachers were limited on time, you would just rush through to get out, get out. Mm-hmm. There wasn’t the understanding of what we should do with our hair prior, during, and after being in the pool.

But now because we’ve got some great stylists, we’ve got some great hair care professionals, they’ve got the training to do that, and they’re sharing that knowledge with us.

Arielle: 

It struck me that the program is called Swim Sista, S-I-S-T-A Swim, and not S-I-S-T-E-R. I’m sure that spelling is a choice.

Carol: 

Yeah, so what I needed to happen was, when a Sista, when a Black woman sees the way it’s spelt, it will resonate with them straightaway.

That’s what we call ourselves. We call ourselves Sista. And that’s how we spell Sista. So I just needed it to be an immediate effect, and it worked. When we done the evaluation, a couple of women that said, “When I seen the way that Sista was spelt, I knew that was for me. Had you spelt it S-I-S-T-E-R, I wouldn’t even continue to read it.”

Arielle: 

So does it ever happen that people ask you why Black women specifically, and why this isn’t just a general women’s swimming program?

Carol: 

Yeah, I get asked it all the time. All the time. And a lot of people don’t understand that, you know, we need protected spaces. And I think all communities need protected spaces.

But the thing about having that protected space, so you don’t have to continually explain yourself. So if you’ve got a group of Black women that are around you, we raise each other up. If you’ve got Black female swim instructors, they understand all the, the things around putting our hair in the water- the chlorine. They helps you navigate through those barriers. It’s a whole package that we deliver. You know, they’re, they’re a, a community. They’re a family.

WhatsApp groups have been set up, and I just watch them communicating on the WhatsApp chats. You know, “Shall we go swimming together? Who’s going swimming? I’m going here.” And they’ll talk about theater productions they’re gonna go and watch as well. What’s actually happening is friendships are being formed.

That social connection is being made. People are coming on their own. Maybe some people that are totally isolated, living by themselves and not doing anything, but then they come together in this community, and then friendships are being formed, and they’re going off and doing things.

So that’s another thing that is, is really fantastic for us.

Arielle: 

Could you walk me through what the program actually looks like? If I were one of your many participants, what would my 10 weeks look like?

Carol: 

Yeah. So it actually starts a bit before 10 weeks because it’s really important that people understand what the program is.

It’s 10 weeks of swimming, but it’s not a drop-in, drop-out. If you can’t commit to the 10 weeks, you won’t get the benefits. To start off with, we have information sessions, which is where women meet the swim teachers and we talk about how the program will run. We do the hour, 45 minutes, hour of swimming, and then immediately after that we have the gathering workshops.

And not on all the weeks do we have a specialist come in and talk, but on all the weeks we eat lunch together or we just gather and eat together and have refreshments, ’cause it’s really important to talk about our, our experiences that we’ve just been through … and support each other. It’s really important that people understand that.

So really it’s a 45 minutes to swim, then it’s an hour of, of gathering. So it’s two hours, I’d say two and a half hours. After the 10 weeks of swimming, we do four weeks of paddling, canoeing, because the whole idea behind Swim Sista Swim is, yes, it’s to get people swimming, but it’s also so that our community will come down to the region’s waterways and enjoy the activities that you can do on or by the water.

That’s the whole ethos behind what Swim Sista Swim is. So you’ve got to be committed to the whole 14 weeks really. Yeah. And we give you a swim hat made by Soul Cap, which are swim caps that fit our hair. Because swim caps haven’t been fitting our hair, but these do. So the first cohort actually, they donated the caps to us.

We have a water safety workshop. Then we have the psychotherapist come in again. She comes at the beginning and the middle, then she comes again at the end to go through the different stages. We have a hairstylist come in for two of the workshops. Then we have the paddle instructor come in and meet the women, because if you think about it, these are women that are fearful of the water, so they were never gonna get on the canal and paddle in a canoe.

Right. So if you bring the, the instructor in to meet the group, to bring the buoyancy aids, show the buoyancy aids that w- they’re gonna be wearing, and just build up that relationship, it’s a lot easier for them to agree to do it after they’ve finished the 10 weeks. For a lot of the women, the thing that they wanted to do was go swimming with their grandchildren.

Because a lot of them end up being carers because childcare is expensive. So that’s what they end up being. So a lot of them wanted to go swimming with their grandchildren. And in fact, I can talk from my own experience, that was one of my goals, so I could go swimming with my grandchildren when we went on holiday.

And on week five I was able to do that. I’m just watching a lot of women just relax in front of my eyes… and know that this is their peace and this is their time to be who they are.

Arielle: 

Yeah. Is there a story or a pattern of stories that captures the heart of what this work does?

Carol: 

So on the first cohort, so we started in April 2024.

So in the first cohort, I would say that one of the women on the program, uh, was possibly the most frightened. She wouldn’t walk over a bridge. She wouldn’t drive over a bridge. So it was adding time to her journey wherever she was going. We had the information session and she was very fearful. She was crying.

And then on the first session- Where I believe she did brilliantly because she showed up and she got in the water. When we was speaking afterwards in our, uh, workshop gathering, she was actually very tearful. Very tearful. And everyone was asking her why, ’cause she did really well. And in her mind, she felt she was worse than she actually thought she was.

And, you know, she was reminded that you actually showed up and you got in the water, so be proud of that. She continued to come, which is fantastic. And then before the end of the 10 weeks, she joined a gym anyway. I think her son had bought her a membership for a gym, and she was going swimming in between-

Arielle: 

Oh, wow.

Carol: 

The weekly sessions that we were having. So by the end of the 10 weeks, she was swimming 40 to 50 lengths a session, three times a week. Th- th- there was actually a tragedy that happened in her family. And, um, her words to me was, “It’s the swimming that got me through.” So that, that really sits with me beautifully.

But what she then did was she signed up to be a volunteer for us at the trust. Because she gained so much from the swim program, she wanted to give back, and that, that’s in her own words. She then became a volunteer for the trust, and she supported me and the other volunteer that we got with the other cohorts that we were, uh, rolling out.

And then because there was a lack of Black female swim instructors, we paid for some people to be swim instructors, and she was one of them. For me, that is just a huge, a huge accomplishment for her. From being the most frightened in the water to now being a swim assistant so she can support other women in the water.

And you know what? She’s fantastic with the other women in the water. You, you should just see her. She’s just fantastic because she’s got real life experience that she can talk about, and 100% understands their fears, and she’s just the right person to move with these people.

And then the other story was, it’s on the third cohort, there was another woman.

She was … She had the most infectious laughter… that you, you could ever know. And she’d come each week. Sometimes she’d be a bit late, and I’d be like, “Come on. Why are you late?” But she’d come each week. But then on the final swim session, she was quite late. A, a good 30, 40 minutes late. And I thought, I’m gonna allow her in because it’s the last session.

I just says, “Oh, you’re late.” You know? And she says, “I know.” She says, “You know, I had to go to this meeting because I lost my daughter.”

And I was like, “Okay.” So then she went in and she had a, a swim in there. And then in the session afterwards she opened up to the group. And then no one can share this because she’s done a s- case study for us.

She did open up to the group that a year prior she lost her daughter, and, um, her daughter passed away and left her grandchild. So she’s now the carer of her grandchild. whilst grieving for the loss of her daughter. But what she did say was the only thing that got her out of her house was the Swim Sista Swim program.

And what she loved about it was that the women in the group just lifted her up. She said she felt safe enough to share it with us at the end of the program, and just to let us know how the program has carried her through. And now she’s back to walking down by the canal, which she used to do with her daughter.

And she’s made connections in the group, and she goes swimming with other women from the group. So it’s been a great healer for her.

Arielle (VO): 

The positive impact that Carol Burrell and Swim Sista Swim have had cannot be understated. Carol was also approached by Sport England to serve on their This Girl Can Black Women’s Advisory Panel, and is collaborating with them to improve water confidence and physical activity among underrepresented groups on a national level.

And some more exciting news, as of this month, Carol and the Canal and River Trust launched Mandem Swim. Carol wrote in an announcement on LinkedIn, “Once the women from cohorts one, two, and three became swimmers, they wanted the men in their lives to also gain the confidence to learn to swim in a safe environment.”

This initiative started on May 11th, and we at The Optimist Daily are so, so happy to see this growth. Congratulations to Carol and her team.

If you want to stay up to date on all the wonderful things Carol does, or support her work in any way…

Carol: 

So you can find me at Canal and River Trust, ’cause that’s where to deliver the program.

So it’s Carol, C-A-R-O-L, dot Burrell, B-U-R-R-E-L-L, at canalrivertrust.org.uk. Or you can find me on LinkedIn, Carol Burrell.

Arielle (VO): 

All of that will be linked in the show notes. Carol and Swim Sista Swim were first brought to our attention by reader and optimist Fiona Groves. So a big thank you to Fiona.

And a huge thank you to you, fellow optimist, for being here, for being a part of our community, and for sharing, liking, rating, subscribing to our podcast, and following us on social media, @optimistdaily on everything except for X, where we are @odetooptimism.

If you are an Emissary, we extend extra appreciation your way. Our Emissaries financially support the work that we do here, and we truly could not continue without you. If you aren’t yet an Emissary and feel compelled to help us with an annual, monthly, or one-time donation, thank you so, so much. You can find the link to do so in the show notes.

Emissaries also get a special perk. They get a link where they can leave us a voice message highlighting their favorite solutions-minded person or charity or initiative, and we will play that message on the podcast. Or if you’d rather Karissa and I read it out, then we can do that too Who knows? Maybe one of your shout-outs will end up with a full guest episode of their own.

As always, we welcome comments, feedback, questions, suggestions. Slide into our DMs on socials or email us at podcast@optimistdaily.com. With that, I wish you all a very happy Friday and a wonderful weekend ahead. Karissa and I will be back next week with more solutions. Today, I’ll leave it to Carol, Janet, and Stephanie to round out the episode.

Stephanie: 

Okay, the best advice, I have to go back to my mum and dad. Every time I found it tough, I just remember my mum saying, “Get up, get up, get up the next day. The next day might be totally different.” My dad, he would always say, “Whatever’s happening in your life, all I need to remember is that Mum and Dad, they’ll be there for us as long as we’re not breaking the law.

And even if we’re breaking the law, they’ll be there, but their hands are tied.” My dad’s key words were, “We can always pick up the pieces and start again.”

Janet: 

What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given? When things look gloomy and bad and you feel stuck, tomorrow’s another day to start again.

Carol: 

Go with what your gut tells you.

Stay authentically you.